Interesting point on birdshot for HD

[cmshoot]

If you can't provide a single reason outside of some unknown, amorphous black magic, then that isn't proof.

Guys consistently, 100% of the time, winning first place with 30"-32" barrels while shorter barrels consistently lose is "amorphous black magic"? No sir, that is hard, cold, proven FACT that I trust much more than equations from some engineer.

Longer barrels consistently win competitions for tight shot patterns. I ain't making this shit up, it's a fact.

 

[Laufen]

Guys consistently, 100% of the time, winning first place with 30"-32" barrels while shorter barrels consistently lose is "amorphous black magic"? No sir, that is hard, cold, proven FACT that I trust much more than equations from some engineer.

Longer barrels consistently win competitions for tight shot patterns. I ain't making this shit up, it's a fact.

You're quoting the success in certain competitions without understanding whether or not the length of the barrel is an important factor or not...just that it's what they've chosen (and you're not sure why or how it affects the pattern....just that they do it). There just isn't any data anywhere that points to causation between barrel length and pattern density...no where.....just that 30-32" is what a particular shop uses for their competition guns. I can't even find a website for them, just a facebook page. It appears their main work is choke tubes...go figure.

 

[cmshoot]

So again, you're saying the speed of the shot cup (not the length of the barrel) is the difference. Or are you saying ( you said you didn't) that the extra length barrel is slowing the speed of the shot cup, thus tightening pattern?

i am saying that my THEORY is that the shot reaches maximum velocity in the barrel much before the end of the 31" barrel, effecting MV and wad performance. Now friction takes over, which slows down the shot in the barrel.

Just like the reason that guys don't use 32" barrels for .308's; because friction overcomes pressure and slows the bullet down.

Anyways, that is my THEORY. I could be wrong about it......wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong.

What I'm NOT wrong about is that longer barrels produce tighter patterns than short barrels in competitive shooting.

 

[Laufen]

i am saying that my THEORY is that the shot reaches maximum velocity in the barrel much before the end of the 31" barrel. Now friction takes over, which slows down the shot in the barrel.

Just like the reason that guys don't use 32" barrels for .308's; because friction overcomes pressure and slows the bullet down.

Anyways, that is my THEORY. I could be wrong about it......wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong.

What I'm NOT wrong about is that longer barrels produce tighter patterns than short barrels in competitive shooting.

That's no theory, you'll burn all of your powder by 18" max.

 

[cmshoot]

SumToy Customs is the company I chose to use as an example because I know them and for no other reason. There are plenty of other shops that are also using 30"-32" barrels. Google and you'll find them.

When you can prove this statement wrong I'll concede:
Competitive shooters using longer barrels are producing tighter patterns than competitors with shorter barrels. The guys using shorter barrels are losing.

Please explain to me why none of the winners are using 21" barrels?

 

[cmshoot]

That's no theory, you'll burn all of your powder by 18" max.

Must you consistently misquote every single post of mine? I did not say that the shot slowing in the barrel due to friction is a THEORY. I am well aware that is a fact. In all barrel (shotgun, rifle, pistol, cannons, etc), you reach a point of diminishing returns when it comes to barrel length. That is a well-known and proven fact.

What I say is my THEORY is the effect of MV on the actions of the shot cup.

 

[cmshoot]

Anyways, the entire argument is an exercise in mental masturbation. I can't convince you of my theory, and you can't convince me of yours.

 

[Laufen]

Anyways, the entire argument is an exercise in mental masturbation. I can't convince you of my theory, and you can't convince me of yours.

That's because mine is based in fact in yours is based on an assumption, that just so happens to not be supported by any facts anywhere. That's just the way it is there's really no getting around that. There is simply no data anywhere that shows a correlation between barrel length and pattern density, nowhere, you won't find a thing.
Cite any type of credible study that correlates barrel length to pattern density and I will absolutely apologize and concede defeat. It's an old wives tale man. Like putting butter on a burn somehow helps it and not just makes it taste better.

 

[cmshoot]

I have not seen you produce a single fact. All you've produced is supposition.

I've produced facts. I've produced facts over and over again. If you choose to take what is a fact and call it "black magic" then there is no reason for me to talk about it anymore.

I'm not asking for, nor do I want, an apology or a concession. Either would mean nothing to me.