SHTF: 5.56 or bust?

[Shemp]

Exactly right.

Optics I can't argue with...but being able to run the gun faster at close range is just a training issue not a gun issue. Someone trained in either r platform would like finish a course of fire nearly the same time.

Accuracy is another myth against the AK. The 5.45 is far more accurate that the 7 62x39 and even with 7.62 one can hit man sized targets to 300m. Anything farther is really kind of moot in a shtf rifle. If the bad guy is 300m away yiu should be getting out of there.....

 

[freedom]

Optics I can't argue with...but being able to run the gun faster at close range is just a training issue not a gun issue. Someone trained in either r platform would like finish a course of fire nearly the same time.

Accuracy is another myth against the AK. The 5.45 is far more accurate that the 7 62x39 and even with 7.62 one can hit man sized targets to 300m. Anything farther is really kind of moot in a shtf rifle. If the bad guy is 300m away yiu should be getting out of there.....

How many of the top 3 gun guys run a AK variant?

Speed is probably a moot point with 5.45, but I don't enjoy the recoil of the 7.62 AK. The recoil of a garand or M1a bothers me less, it's more but less sharp. Kinda like 45 versus the 40.

The accuracy is not a myth in the average shooters hands with a stock rifle, granted it's more the sights than the inherent accuracy of the rifles. I still haven't seen anyone shoot a rifleman score with an AK.

 

[Shemp]

How many of the top 3 gun guys run a AK variant?

Speed is probably a moot point with 5.45, but I don't enjoy the recoil of the 7.62 AK. The recoil of a garand or M1a bothers me less, it's more but less sharp. Kinda like 45 versus the 40.

The accuracy is not a myth in the average shooters hands with a stock rifle, granted it's more the sights than the inherent accuracy of the rifles. I still haven't seen anyone shoot a rifleman score with an AK.

Are we really to base our decision on what rifle to choose upon whatever the top 3 poster boys use?

On a side note,how many AKs do you typically see in the Appleseed classes? I might have to take another one just to compare it how I did with the Mini G.

 

[freedom]

I used three gun competitors, because you said you could run one as quick as the other, with practice/training. The accuracy standard isn't that great in three gun, and they would use an AK if their split times were better. Those guys also aren't limited by budget and could kit an AK out however they chose to. I don't think they have any real bias against AKs, because so many run a shotgun variant.

I would say AK/SKS makes up 10% of the centerfire rifles I see or maybe a bit less, about the same percentage as big boy rifles.

 

[Liberty]

Maybe...but whether that -06 round hits the left pectoral or right pectoral it ain't getting back up...

I load both, and can sling a 150 grain from an 06 as fast as a 55 from a .223, no arguing the power. However the ammunition is three to four times the weight of a .223. For hunting/ sniping the 06 is certainly superior, but shtf, give me 4 times the number of rounds.

 

[Shemp]

I load both, and can sling a 150 grain from an 06 as fast as a 55 from a .223, no arguing the power. However the ammunition is three to four times the weight of a .223. For hunting/ sniping the 06 is certainly superior, but shtf, give me 4 times the number of rounds.

That was meant to be in jest

 

[Liberty]

That was meant to be in jest

I was agreeing with you. In every situation except carrying everything you own in a backpack, or avoiding overpenetration, the 30-06 wins.

 

[Willy Leadwell]

like.......sexually?

Maybe...

 

[Willy Leadwell]

Then it's a question of whether said AR likes to eat Wolf....from what I understand it's a crapshoot that leans toward the negative..

I put the crappiest steel ammo I can find through every gun I build, if it don't like it, I fix it. If I ever can't fix it, I'll get rid of it, but that hasn't happened yet.

 

[Shemp]

So I can't decide between getting another AK in 5.56 or 5.45.

 

[Willy Leadwell]

So I can't decide between getting another AK in 5.56 or 5.45.

5.45

 

[Hayata]

5.56

 

[Hayata]

Or 5.45

How do you lose either way?

 

[Shemp]

Or 5.45

How do you lose either way?

I'm just trying to be cool.

I can shoot 5.56 anywhere...

 

[DarthVader]

Just saw article from TFB. Some very interesting findings on parts longevity, barrel life, lubricants and the AR vs AK question.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/09/08/ar-endurance-findings-at-a-rental-range/

 

[Shemp]

Just saw article from TFB. Some very interesting findings on parts longevity, barrel life, lubricants and the AR vs AK question.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/09/08/ar-endurance-findings-at-a-rental-range/

I can't access the link at work...but it is Ron from Battleground LV?

If it is it is very interesting. The AR bias is very apparent; I don't see how one can say the AR lasts just as long as an AK when the AR has had every piece on it replaced except the receivers....

I'm sure one could take solace in the fact that while the barrel might be shot out or extractor spring rendering the gun inop that the receivers are still gtg....

 

[DarthVader]

I can't access the link at work...but it is Ron from Battleground LV?

If it is it is very interesting. The AR bias is very apparent; I don't see how one can say the AR lasts just as long as an AK when the AR has had every piece on it replaced except the receivers....

I'm sure one could take solace in the fact that while the barrel might be shot out or extractor spring rendering the gun inop that the receivers are still gtg....

Yes, it's the guy from BFV. He submitted a separate article a few months ago that specifically addressed the AKs they run. I think the perceived bias is probably a result of the fact that the AR's run better and are more durable than many people give them credit for.

Aside from the gas tube, the AK will wear out similar parts, primarily the barrel & bolt. I would expect an AK bolt to outlast an AR, but they're routinely getting 20k out of AR bolts. That's pretty impressive. The AKs biggest issue was having the receiver crap out / crack, which is sort of a big deal. Both guns will wear out their barrels and bolts, that's just what they do.

Again, I'm not sharing this to prove some sort of AR is better viewpoint. Just providing some good reference points for folks to consider and arrive at their own decision.

 

[Shemp]

Yes, it's the guy from BFV. He submitted a separate article a few months ago that specifically addressed the AKs they run. I think the perceived bias is probably a result of the fact that the AR's run better and are more durable than many people give them credit for.

Aside from the gas tube, the AK will wear out similar parts, primarily the barrel & bolt. I would expect an AK bolt to outlast an AR, but they're routinely getting 20k out of AR bolts. That's pretty impressive. The AKs biggest issue was having the receiver crap out / crack, which is sort of a big deal. Both guns will wear out their barrels and bolts, that's just what they do.

Again, I'm not sharing this to prove some sort of AR is better viewpoint. Just providing some good reference points for folks to consider and arrive at their own decision.

Yes I read both....that might account for the bias. I have always said the AR is more durable than given credit for....but calling them as durable when the bolts crack at 20k round compared to an AK is a bit....biased. The fact is that by around 45-55k rounds that AR is only the same AR it was when it started because it has the same SN on the receiver, everything else is new/replaced. ..not to mention the cleaning regimen it takes to get there.

Yes, the AK receivers were cracking....but at how many rounds? 80-100k if memory serves....and the barrels on the WASRs were STILL good even at that round count. 80k rounds on a $550 gun with minimal maintenance is ok with me....

Then again I'd never shoot the 12-20k rounds it takes to crack an AR bolt either.

The AR is much better than given credit for but lets not get crazy and say it's every bit as reliable/durable as the "standard" AK....

 

[DarthVader]

Here's the write up they did on the AKs for reference. A couple of them are still running the original barrels after 2.5 years. Very impressive. Others have needed replacing. It looks like they're replacing bolts not due to breakage, but due to headspace. Lots of broken receivers, which they are equipped to deal with.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/06/03/how-many-rounds-can-an-ak-fire-before-it-breaks-down/

 

[DarthVader]

.

The AR is much better than given credit for but lets not get crazy and say it's every bit as reliable/durable as the "standard" AK....

I guess my take away is twofold. First, the AR is much more reliable than people give it credit for and it's not the jammomatic that some people want to beleive it is. And second, the AK is a well proven, durable gun, but it's not the indestructible machine that people think it is either.

If anything, both articles do a good job of dispelling some myths and proving that both guns can take a beating. Which brings us back to what we said earlier, it boils down to personal preference. I just wanted to share the links because I thought they were really interesting and they provide a good baseline for what we can expect to go wrong and when, with each gun. Truthfully though, the high firing schedules these guns see, means they are failing sooner than the average gun would with a more "normal" schedule. Translation, they'd probably perform better / last longer under less abusive conditions.