If you play stupid games with the ATF, you win stupid prizes.

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Leshaire

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I fully agree with the whole ATF ruling on stupid laws. I personally don't see a big need for the ATF at all. But if you are going to walk a fine line against their laws then you better be ready to suffer the consequences. When you got somebody like this ebay special, it really puts a bad rep for so many manufactures and owners. He knows that he was breaking the (BS) law, but instead of breaking it he should have went down the right road and got the license. Then at least he would be on the right side of the fight and could help with demolishing the ATF and their stupid laws.
Yeah, I suppose what I don't agree with is that a person in the United States can NOT break a law, and end up in jail because of what the ATF (or any department) thinks about what that person did... Did he have ill intentions, probably. Did he break a law, no. And the dumbass users that DID break the law aren't in jail lol. Thats what really gets me.
 
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EugenFJR

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I could only imagine that it would just so happen to fit in a commonly found tubing. Like maybe a flash light or that really neat solid tube that your pocket pleasure device came in.

So anyone who has a fleshlight has a unregistered silencer ? Thats cool! And it was only $50.00 bucks!! The next time I go to the range, I'll put it on the end of my AR... And see how well it dose. ;)
 

Laufen

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Sig didnt have a ruling when they came out with the pistol brace. They arent in jail...
Are you sure? Are you sure they didn't submit a sample to the ATF? The initial ruling declared it to be an "arm brace" and not illegal to shoulder. It wasn't until 2015 that they amended the ruling.
 

Laufen

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So anyone who has a fleshlight has a unregistered silencer ? Thats cool! And it was only $50.00 bucks!! The next time I go to the range, I'll put it on the end of my AR... And see how well it dose. ;)
According to the atf, a silencer is any device that reduces was designed for OR re-designed for diminishing the report of a firearm. Slap it on the end of your rifle, and you've committed a felony.
 

Cudruln

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So anyone who has a fleshlight has a unregistered silencer ? Thats cool! And it was only $50.00 bucks!! The next time I go to the range, I'll put it on the end of my AR... And see how well it dose. ;)
Well you buy what this guy was offering and adapt it to your pleasure device and you have a undocumented suppressor.
 

Cudruln

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Yeah, I suppose what I don't agree with is that a person in the United States can NOT break a law, and end up in jail because of what the ATF (or any department) thinks about what that person did... Did he have ill intentions, probably. Did he break a law, no. And the dumbass users that DID break the law aren't in jail lol. Thats what really gets me.
I feel that the atf is just trying to make an example of this guy. Was dude in the wrong? It is a grey area. Should he have produced this item? Probably not and definitely not after the first time he got in trouble for it.
 

Leshaire

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Are you sure? Are you sure they didn't submit a sample to the ATF? The initial ruling declared it to be an "arm brace" and not illegal to shoulder. It wasn't until 2015 that they amended the ruling.
No, not 100%. I believe the first one wasnt approved prior to manufacturing and sailing it though.
 

Leshaire

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According to the atf, a silencer is any device that reduces was designed for OR re-designed for diminishing the report of a firearm. Slap it on the end of your rifle, and you've committed a felony.
Or dont slap it on the end of your rifle...
 

Leshaire

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I feel that the atf is just trying to make an example of this guy. Was dude in the wrong? It is a grey area. Should he have produced this item? Probably not and definitely not after the first time he got in trouble for it.
Yeah being that he was told once not to do that shit makes him fully retarded.
 
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Jake

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Could be but that's not his fault. That would be on the jackass breaking the law and turning a brake into a silencer. The user misused the brake. The manufacture didn't force the user into using it in that way.

This jackass knew what he was doing. Do I agree with the law? No. But just because I don't agree with certain laws doesn't mean that I won't follow them. This is the 2nd time that he has gotten in trouble with the ATF for the same thing. Hence the title of this thread.

Number 3 and 4 is what really makes me not feel sorry for this guy. Number 1 is kinda common sense but I don't think it really proves anything and number 2 is just speculation.

A couple of observations:

1) The material used to make this part is 6061 aluminum with a .250 bore- meaning it must have been made to only withstand the pressures of rimfire ammunition. By the time the rimfire round passes through the third of forth section, most of the gasses have already exited the brake. This is one technique authorities could have used to surmise that the item for sale on eBay was intended to be used in a silencer part and not a muzzle device.

2) The seller could have privately advertised that this part would work as a monocore baffle stack, complete with barrel threads and bore. Remember, manufacturing any silencer parts requires a federal firearms manufacturing license.

3) Stating that a muzzle brake has a “nice low tone” isn’t exactly evidence, but it also isn’t helpful to the defendant’s case. I don’t recall ever reading about muzzle brakeschanging to tone of a discharged firearm.

4) The defendant has a prior conviction for manufacturing “silencer kits” for which he was currently on probation. Which means if he didn’t understand that the NFA and silencer laws and regulations were complicated before, he should have definitely made time to understand the laws after he plead guilty.
 

ReservoirDawg10

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I could only imagine that it would just so happen to fit in a commonly found tubing. Like maybe a flash light or that really neat solid tube that your pocket pleasure device came in.

So would anybody's muzzles brakes. Sticking with this reasoning, anyone with a muzzle brake could be breaking the law. Drop a couple into a tube, weld the end shut, and voila!
 

DarthVader

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I could only imagine that it would just so happen to fit in a commonly found tubing. Like maybe a flash light or that really neat solid tube that your pocket pleasure device came in.

Could be but that's not his fault. That would be on the jackass breaking the law and turning a brake into a silencer. The user misused the brake. The manufacture didn't force the user into using it in that way.


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He sold a couple of hundred of these and advertised that they fit perfectly in a specific sized tubing. He had already been arrested and charged once before and was on probation for the same thing. Dude knew what he was doing and basically gave ATF the finger.
 

DarthVader

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Sig didnt have a ruling when they came out with the pistol brace. They arent in jail...
Sig didn't design their brace. Another smaller start up company did. That company got it approved and then Sig bought it.

And Sig already tried the "it's a brake not a silencer" argument. They lost in court. So the precedent was already in place to shut this guy down. The fact that he clearly advertised the intent to use it as a core, with comments about low tone and sized for an outer tube make it pretty obvious what his intent was.

Yes, the NFA is dumb and a 2A infringement. But it's the law of the land. This guy knew it. Got busted once, got off with a slap on the wrist and then did it again. This time, stupid is gonna hurt.

What's worse, is you can bet your ass that every single buyer will get a visit from the ATF.
 

Mac11FA

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He primarily was arrested the first time for selling suppressor kits. This 2nd offense could very well have been a part from one of those kits therefore it is illegal.