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boss_hawg

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Ok, these threads need to happen once about every six months. Haven't seen one lately so here goes...

If you were buying a pump-action 12 gauge shotgun for home defense and maybe some hunting, which one would you buy and why?

Remington 870, Mossberg 500/590, Winchester Defender, Benelli Nova/Super Nova, etc. I would expect to be the most popular choices but don't hold back.

I have owned an 870 before but just want to see others opinions. I'm thinking about getting another pump after going 100% semi and O/U three years ago.
 

AtlMedic

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If you have to be able to use it for both then the 870 or 500 are your best options. For me, the things I look for in a hunting shotgun vs a HD shotgun are different and shotguns are cheap enough that I am ok having one for each role.

personally I would buy a HD pump and then if you wanted a hunting pump spend $200 or less for a Maverick 88.
 

boss_hawg

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If you have to be able to use it for both then the 870 or 500 are your best options. For me, the things I look for in a hunting shotgun vs a HD shotgun are different and shotguns are cheap enough that I am ok having one for each role.

personally I would buy a HD pump and then if you wanted a hunting pump spend $200 or less for a Maverick 88.

But which one do you prefer - Mossberg or Remington?
 

AtlMedic

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But which one do you prefer - Mossberg or Remington?

I prefer the 870 for a HD gun because its easy to add mag extensions and I like the flat finsih. I prefer the 500 for hunting because I like the tang safety when I am using gloves and I can switch it on and off easier when bringing the gun up to my shoulder.
 

Liberty

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An 870 Wingmaster with 26 inch barrel makes a fine well balanced field gun that carries easy and points naturally.
If a dozen bad guy shows up the first one will take a round of shot and the other 11 will hurt themselves running away.
 
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cmshoot

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Find a shop that has police trade-ins and pick up a used Police model Rem870. Ed's in Stockbridge usually has some.

Second choice would be a Mossberg 590 or 590A1. I can't recommend the 500 shotgun......seen too many issues with extended/heavy use.
 

cmshoot

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I ran a combat shotgun class a while back. Had a fairly wide array of shotguns present in the hands of the students.

Had 2 Mossberg 500's; both ceased to work during the warm-up drills that started the day. Major feeding issues. One of the guys borrowed my old HK-marked Benelli M1, and the other borrowed a Nighthawk Custom 870 off another student. Both of those ran flawlessly.

Had 2 Mossberg 930's in the class. One ran perfectly, the other one had some hiccups here and there, which we traced to it being dirty and bone dry.

Had a UTAS UTS-15. It wouldn't function from the get go. Even worse, that thing is so confusing I couldn't diagnose the problem!

Half the class ran 870's........no issues with any of them that weren't due to operator error.

The lone Winchester 1300 Defender ran fine, as did the only Remington Versa Max. That Versa Max is FAAAST........I ran 6 rounds out of it as fast as I can out of my M4 carbine in 5.56. Fast, smooth and light recoiling.

I ran a 14" Wilson Combat/Scattergun Tech 870. Needless to say, she ran like a champ.

No Benelli pumps or M4's were present, or Mossberg 590's. No old school Ithaca 37's........love them thangs.......

I've seen every type of shotgun you can think of fail, just as with any weapon system. On pump shotguns (of any brand name), the majority of the problems I've seen were user error. On autoloaders, most problems are related to the ammunition, e.g., not "powerful" enough to properly cycle. But, I have seen shotguns from every company have legitimate mechanical malfunctions that had nothing to do with the operator or the ammo. This includes my beloved 870.

With that said, I have found the Remington 870 to be the most rugged and reliable combat shotgun on the market. I have not found a single issue with the Mossberg 590, either. The only reason that I put the 870 in front of the 590 is that I see WAAAY more 870's than I do 590's, probably a ratio of 15:1. For all I know, the 590 could be the better gun, but I don't see enough of them to accurately compare them to the 870. Years ago, I borrowed a 14" 590 while attending a week long Shotgun Instructor workshop; she ran like a champ and I aced the qual course with her.

I've yet to see a problem with the new Benelli M4, but I have had less than 10 of them come through my class. I'm contemplating buying a 14" model, if I do we'll see how she runs.

If you are in the market for a Remington 870, check and see if there's a shop in your area that does a lot of LEO business and look for a trade-in Police model. That's the way to go, quite a few differences between the Police model and the standard or HD models. I'd rather have a used Police than a new HD. Alternately, you can "upgrade" your 870 to a Police, or have it done. My 14" 870 started as a beater "standard" model that was sent to Scattergun Tech. They chopped the tube, installed ghost ring sights and performed all the upgrades to Police model specs. I later replaced the 12" barrel with a Remington 14" barrel with fixed Modified choke. If you don't wanna go that far, at least make sure that your lifter has a flex tab. If not, that's a cheap and easy part swap that you can do yourself.

Here's the differences between a Police and Express model:
• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.
• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.
• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.
• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.
• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.
• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.
• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.
• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.
• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.
• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.
• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.
• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.
• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system.
• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.
• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.

On the 2 Mossberg 500's that failed in the first 20rds during my last class, neither were due to user error. I attempted to run each gun myself......nuttin' doin'. On one of them, the shells would not feed from the tube. They just stayed there and refused to leave. When that happened, it would not function or fire a single round. On the other one, it would malfunction on the average of every 3 rounds or so. When the lifter/elevator would present the next round to the bolt to be fed into the chamber, they would either come up at an angle, or not high enough, or both. When then would happen, the bolt round catch the round at an angle and refuse to feed it. On both guns, we tried to run them with at least 4 different factory 2 3/4" birdshot loads, as well as high brass 00 buck and slugs.
 

Jake

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Awesome info as usual @cmshoot. I'm kinda partial to my 930 SPX but I have been thinking about picking up a pump. I think you just convinced me to pick up an 870 Police. :thumbsup:
 
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dial1911

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I'd pick my Mossy Mariner 590 (Or 590A1... I feel bad. I should know the model number on that one).

It's worked with everything I've run through it. Mostly bird shot at the range honestly, but I've also shot #4 buck and slugs out of it without problems- but not a lot of those.
 
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Kobayashi

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For a home defense pump action I'd likely buy another IAC Hawk. It's an 870 clone that can be had for under $200. In some respects it is better than an 870 in that it has many machined parts that have long since gone to MIM on the 870.
 

AtlMedic

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Find a shop that has police trade-ins and pick up a used Police model Rem870. Ed's in Stockbridge usually has some.

Second choice would be a Mossberg 590 or 590A1. I can't recommend the 500 shotgun......seen too many issues with extended/heavy use.

But can a 870 do this?
image.jpeg
 
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cmshoot

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But can a 870 do this?
View attachment 19076

Yes......yes it can! Of course, you have to buy the parts.

When I was an Assistant Patrol Leader/Point Man doing jungle patrols in the Philippines, my issue weapon was a 20" Rem870 with bayonet lug attachment. I was toting that when I got into my first gunfight, I've had a soft spot to the Rem870 every since.
 

DMR

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For a home defense pump action I'd likely buy another IAC Hawk. It's an 870 clone that can be had for under $200. In some respects it is better than an 870 in that it has many machined parts that have long since gone to MIM on the 870.
That is what I'm using in case of "emergency". But my nicer one is a Mossberg.

The Hawks are g2g.
 

cmshoot

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I'd have to cut a few inches off the back of the forend on the IAC. Why would a clone of the 870, intended for defensive use, have a copy of a hunting forend on it? There are reasons the Police model has a shorter forend than the hunting models.
 

Kobayashi

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I'd have to cut a few inches off the back of the forend on the IAC. Why would a clone of the 870, intended for defensive use, have a copy of a hunting forend on it? There are reasons the Police model has a shorter forend than the hunting models.
I've always wanted to try one with a Magpul SGA stock set installed.
 

cbh13

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after messing with them some I really like those defender 1300's. A. once you get used to the "speed pump" action you can shoot them fast as hell and B. for optimal fun these will run the mini shells without any modification so you can have a 12/13 shot gun.
 

Kobayashi

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after messing with them some I really like those defender 1300's. A. once you get used to the "speed pump" action you can shoot them fast as hell and B. for optimal fun these will run the mini shells without any modification so you can have a 12/13 shot gun.
Interesting. I hadn't heard of mini shells before. I haven't seen them on the shelf. Are they hard to find?
 

cbh13

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Interesting. I hadn't heard of mini shells before. I haven't seen them on the shelf. Are they hard to find?

I believe they were discontinued for now but you can still find them around but they arnt common by any means, online is prob the best bet.
 

Laufen

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I used to have an HK FP6 that was pretty decent, except for the weird "outchoke" system.

sold-hk-fp6-tactical-shotgun-americanlisted_37976111.jpg